Talk:2012-10-31-The Flurry 9

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WARNING: Readers should be apprised of conflicting assessments of the ABC Summaries, occurring specifically in the documents Conversations with Monjoronson numbers 65, 66, and 67.--rdavis 19:32, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Ron wrote as preface on November 1, 2012:

Advance Notice for New FLURRY Issue Coming Soon

It is my pleasure to announce that a new FLURRY is going to be sent to the BCC list sometime before next week (election week) is over. It is a very long document in draft form reaching at this time 39 pages, but it must go through independent editing since I am not capable of writing and then editing so much information. My eyes just do not pick out the mistakes and I am letting someone else do that for me. That means I can not give you an exact date for release as I write this to prepare you for an extraordinary release.

To readers of this coming FLURRY (Vol I, No. 9 for 2012), I wish to prepare you for a journey I never expected to know about much less hear directly what is being prepared for Urantia.

This FLURRY relates the decision by Michael of Nebadon to ask the Paradise Deities to provide a placement of the Council of Equilibrium on a planet near Salvington for Urantia help. Insofar as I know, no evolutionary planet has ever been afforded the opportunity to receive the input from Paradise right from a planet in time who asks for Paradise counsel. The Council of Equilibrium is composed of the highest spiritual authorities to be found anywhere and is attended by the Paradise Deities, the Master Spirits, and the Supreme Power Directors from all seven superuniverses.

FLURRY Number 9, the one coming soon, has been given the chance to sit down with Michael of Nebadon to discuss the disparities between the Urantia conversion to an architectural sphere and what it takes to get that done. In Michael’s interview with me, there was a sense of awe even from Michael what has been given to him and Urantia to overcome a disaster in over development of free will on Urantia and the pain that causes the Universal Father. After a long series of meetings on Paradise, Michael’s request was approved for installation of the Council of Equilibrium for Urantia with the Chief World of Seraphic Services to be its headquarters located near Salvington for the Council’s use.

See the Seraphic World discussions The Flurry Vol I No. 7 July 24, 2012 - The CARO Calculations

https://www.box.com/s/559591799aaad3a730e5

The Council of Equilibrium liaison Director for Salvington is the Completion Seraphim, Manotia, Order of Michael 499195.

The other approvals for Michael need some preparation for the reader’s mind to assimilate. Once and for all, Michael is making clear that the Council deals with all seven superuniverses and not just Orvonton, and that Urantia's problems can help look at opportunities for reclamation regardless of what caused the disaster in the first place. The Council has experience with a wider view of cosmic disasters and affords a complete review about how to fix them.

FLURRY Number 9 was given un-precedented access to Superuniverse Number Six. The Council may find that what is to be done with Urantia might be applied to Honeidar and Salisar.

In Superuniverse Number Six exists two planets with intelligent humans long established in Light and Life. Their worlds both experienced solar disruptions to the point that one, Salisar, had to be restarted with a new homo-spirituous race blended with the Adamic Material Sons. The other planet, Honeidar, a Michael bestowal planet in Superuniverse Six, existing some 60 light years from Salisar, had their solar system come apart when a Jupiter-sized planet ignited when it exploded and was captured by their solar star and now forms a binary star that is cooking the Honeidar planet to extinction.

I tell you these things because FLURRY No. 9 will probably become a widely read document by even those who never heard of the fifth epochal revelation. It has received some pictures by Thought Graph and transmissions by Telekinesis (all explained in the document) of sketches of transport and even physical appearance of both races. Quite a lot of detail has been given on dress and appearance and I believe this constitutes one of the greatest revelations of off-planet species ever officially given to anyone on our planet.

I have said enough to prepare you for a grand experience among the stars, and we can not go without thanking the Deities for being so gracious to give The FLURRY permission to access data no one else has been able to read or see before. This is done primarily to find solutions that are not confined to one superuniverse.

It may interest some readers to know (as it did me), that a Universal Censor was assigned to the project. Normally the Censor would cut me off when receipt of messages like this start to come in. The Father's rule is that there is to be no communication between the other superuniverses until they are all settled in Light and Life. Therefore, the flow of material would be stopped and I would be told to get out of there in an unceremonious tone, but thanks to Michael, he interceded with the Paradise authorities to ask that the Universal Censor stand aside while these transmissions were made for recording here. All of this was done by the gracious review given by Father to allow (perhaps) this one-time access. I do not know what is possible in the future for communications passed this point.

We need a few days yet to prepare the release, so please be patient. It will be released within the fortnight.

Thank you Ron Besser

Additional Information November 02, 2012

In writing the reviewing editor of the FLURRY for release this time, I was describing how pictures were being transferred to our receiver in Washington State. I mentioned that the word telekinesis was their (Salisar's) choice of words to describe it since the question arose that we here on Urantia only use the word to indicate moving or bending objects with the force of mind. However, the word more generally describes the movement of material objects with mind focal force anywhere, and that is truly how the Varen and the Honeidarians send pictures. Our receiver on Urantia obtains a transmission packet which the Honeidar call a "thought sled". The sled is a gray, slightly oblong, drop-like energy in which they place the details of photographs. They have learned to fill the sled with the photo data and then with amazing mind control, send the sled with mind pixels within a communication transmission. Since all minds work the same way even though some species like ourselves have no idea how to use mind this well, our receiver in Washington State has a mind connection to a transmission station on Salisar, and that beam carries the sled and the communication at the same time. Caro's mind can unpack the sled and receive the impressions that he can draw on paper. We have used two or three such sled translations in FLURRY No. 9. To you it will look like a pencil sketch someone made up, but these are true photos interpreted by the receiver's mind.

One more thing. The Honeidar people are trained in school to transmit mentally to each other and do not speak, or hardly at all [they are a modified order of non-breathers and have an earth-like atmosphere with less gas present]. They and the Varen are both familiar with the GRAPH method of thought transfer used on Paradise to teach and to communicate. The Varen transmitted to me that they can transfer 10 million data bits per millisecond to a receptive mind, and that they must utilize the graph method to program their giant space ships which probe intergalactic space. Such is the requirement for navigational control and precise maneuvering that a navigator requires 12 to 15 of our years to be prepared to sit in command of that portion of the ship. Their ship logs run from 15 to 30 million pages per triumphal journey and it is all brought back and studied in their classrooms for navigators and historians and social architects which abound on Salisar. This information is not in the FLURRY about to be released so it is a gift to us from Salisar and Honeidar right now for your edification.

Discussion

On 11/5/2012 10:06 PM, after the document dated Oct. 31, 2012 was circulated Rob Davis wrote:

Hello Ron-

Thank you for sharing! This certainly takes communication to a new frontier for tml.

It will take a while to read this, but I trust there will be an opportunity to discuss the various components of the document later. The formatting alone is formidable, but I am glad to see the renewal of images being transmitted, something anonymous Teaching Mission participants in the past have withheld due to the fact that they were not the norm for their time.

This underscores the impression of science fiction that many have had of the Urantia text over the years. In any event, while I reserve serious comments until I have read this, on a purely material level, as I look forward to learning new words, this one may require a whole new genre for the lexicon.

Gratefully,

Rob

Ron wrote: Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:39 PM

Rob,

I seem to have intermittent communication with the authorities of the Honeidar and Salisar party that made these communications possible. I was first led to believe that because of the sensitive nature of the communications, I would be greatly restricted in accessing members of what we might call an expeditionary party of the Honeidarians and even of the Varen (of Salisar). However, I still seem to have intermittent access of a nature I do not understand as it is there and not there depending on whether what I am doing is worth observing or not. You certainly can smile about the situation, and I would find it a little disconcerting if I ever would remember that they can observe directly by avoiding the use of Adjusters, but going right through their thought transference systems which I cannot even begin to comprehend.

There is a great deal of humor in these people and great kindness too, but a transmitter would have to be attuned to their variable speed transmissions to catch it. I do not know how I do it so I can not tell you, but in the background of all of this technology and ability resides the Thought Adjuster (Father) and Michael of Nebadon (pulling strings), and the combination is extraordinary to experience in its ease of receipt. I hear as clearly as someone speaking on a telephone receiver and completely free of fading or loss of thought.

In the beginning the set up was to Washington State and I did not have a connection in mid October. It began with a reflective contact to Felix Caro in Everett, WA who began receiving thought pictures of unusual graphical quality and which he sat down and drew what he saw. He saw what he describes a video-like presentations that could stop and start probably at the behest of the Honeidar transmitter. Then a verbal message from a Solitary Messenger (Veremerton) who made the introductions. There is no explanation why this began and why particular people were targeted to receive the transmissions. I came into the picture as I kept a diary of the transmissions and pictures as Felix received them. All the while both of us were instructed to keep the pictures and the transmissions secret until they revealed the reasons for starting the communications from Honeidar.

Two interesting facts emerged. Felix was connected directly to Salisar (a distant neighbor to Honeidar), because there was situated a transmitting station built on the ground that could produce variable word transmissions. The Honeidar did not have that technology although the Honeidar could transmit without a station if they had to! So Felix received Veremerton and others through Salisar, and later when they needed me, I was directly encircuited with the Honeidar personality Rondar, who is a renown teacher and philosopher, and is to use our terminology, a tenured and respected Professor at a post-degree university on Honeidar. I do not quite know the nature of my connection to Rondar as it never seems to be permanent but yet never seems to go away - it is impossible to explain at all.

We have been privileged to make contact with a group of humans in Superuniverse Six that has the potential to change how we view other human life in the universe. I for one believe we have only scratched the surface of this relationship if the Deities permit it to flourish. If they do not, then we still have a glimpse of an enormous reason to believe that God makes plan for all of us that even links our destiny to others who have no imaginary purpose but to live their lives without ever knowing what lies before them, and who they become associated with, as the universe grows toward Light and Life. I feel sure Rondar and Ron never each had an idea the other COULD exist, but now that each of them knows they live only a thought away, the mystery of purpose just grows larger. That is not just true for Rongar and myself, but for everyone reading these Papers I have been privileged to abstract from the Thought Adjuster in me, and who watches every detail to see to it that I get it right most of the time.

Much more may be forthcoming and much depends on reaction of those who read the paper and who learn what is transpiring in deep space. Disinterest nearly killed the Urantia Book, but it has been saved from oblivion by the Teaching Mission and the Magisterial Mission. Even the Urantia Book will have its day in the sun very soon when they announce that the forthcoming second edition will be published in four parts to prevent the book from becoming too large to life by little arms to read closely.

Ask all you wish, but I am totally dependent on permissions from many sources that I can not guarantee I can answer either very few or none depending on their nature.

Ron

Rob wrote: Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 10:40 PM

Thank you Ron!

You and others may wish to read The Helianx Proposition Daynal Institute Press has recently produced as it deals in a "figurative" manner the journey of a race of highly evolved beings from SU2 to a familiar planet (:-) in SU7. In any event, I am glad to hear the committee for the Urantia text is mirroring my plan for its re-release.

Gratefully,

Rob

Gerdean wrote: Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 10:49 PM

THIS is why we are being persecuted.

THIS is why our spiritual program has become the laughingstock of Urantia.

WHO could possibly take the Teaching Mission seriously.

HOW could they not believe we are all stark raving nuts.

Rob wrote: Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 10:56 PM

Wait until you read the unpublished volumes of "Return of the Rebel Angels". It makes this document read like Amos 'n Andy

Gerdean wrote: Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 11:36 PM

I will probably not be able to read them. I have Timothy's new book about the return of the rebel angels and I am having an impossible time getting into it. I am not amused.  :-)

Gerdean wrote: Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 11:41 PM

The thing about Timothy, however, is that he was politic enough to not identify himself with the Teaching Mission. He stands on his own experience. Our transmissions were not used as a base upon which he could build himself a platform.

John F. Kimble wrote: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:59 AM

GREAT JOB RON!! I no longer stand confused and concerned about you. I now SEE and realize the TRUTH that: What One Is "Open" to - One CAN Receive." It's that simple. You see, I know ALL things are possible in God's "creative" Universe.

Your abilities prove this IS so. One just has to be "OPEN" to the possibilities and you that fairly well.

I understand now that if ALL the T/Rs out there would just be "OPEN" to ALL transmissions of Light coming in, like what we received from our brothers from SuperUniverse number 6, you would NOT be the only one receiving these transmissions. I get that now.

Being "OPEN TO RECEIVE" is key. It's that simple!

Keep up the good work Ron and leave the "discernment" up to the reader.

Good Job STuTe

Sent from my iPad

Joseph Pick wrote: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 6:59 AM

I feel like a super christian.....

Marty Greenhut wrote: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Dear Gerdean, All of the paradigm's in our understanding of reality are constantly being challenged. The world used to be a flat surface on which you could fall off the edge. The Sun used to orbit the earth. Woman was once made from a man's rib. Etc.

Now we are being prepared to meet our divine and celestial guardians who were heretofore unseen and we are being prepared to meet our ascending mortal brothers and sisters who are here in their ships. We are notified of our planetary destiny and our future in abundance, peace and the joy of Father's love.

People were excommunicated, jailed, thrown into pits, burned at the stake, tortured and ridiculed for pronouncing changes in the accepted paradigms of humanity.

You have the privilege to introduce new discoveries on the cutting edge of planetary revelation. Let those who scoff have their day. Here's a quote from Teacher Tomas on Lightline 11/1/12:

"..... you might also see the value of patience when it comes to those who are so fired up, energetic, adamant, and unyielding about what they feel...."

If Ron and Felix are on a fantasy trip of some kind, we will surely find out the truth, for truth is eternal and indestructible while fantasy and error simply disappear.

In Father's love, Marty

Jim Cleveland wrote: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 11:59 AM

Hi,

The Teaching Mission has been under fire in the U.S. since it was announced in the U.S., in 1991 I believe. We have been 'nefarious channelers' ever since.

Ron comes along many years later, after years of near seclusion making his connection in PA. No doubt the MM adds fuel to the fire of critics since it is also the product of nefarious channeling and includes many of the same suspects. But our critics have always been here.

So be it, then. It is what it is.

I hate that any real interest in personal spiritual growth and making personal connections with teachers seems to have been sidetracked by interest in the coming phenomena.

Well, let it arrive. I've been reading threshold pronouncements from the ET and Galactic agencies for years and years now. Now I hear them from within our own ranks. My patience and credulity is wearing thin.

Let it be. But don't expect any patience from me on some curve ball change of plans based on our spiritual unreadiness, lack of good energy, or circuitry pollution or Father just mysteriously changed his mind stuff.

It's a finite world here. Let's get on with it.

Celestials have defaulted here as much as humans ever could. Let's have the Correcting Time head-on. There's no reasoning with the money-hoarding richies who have stopped the world cold while they pile up all the wealth. Send in the celestial cavalry; I'll gladly give up my agondonter status.

Rob Davis wrote: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:59 PM

Hello Gerdean-

I appreciate that you recognize the value of distinguishing between personal experience and an official representation of what we know as the Teaching Mission. It is an important distinction, but the ever present conundrum of "The Teaching Mission" is that it is a personal spiritual experience attested to by many individuals inhabiting a profoundly fragmented world.

I am grateful for the experience all the more.

Michelle Duchemin wrote: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM

Love. We should start from within our circle and love one another, even when we don't believe another's experience can be real. Whether it is real or not, we will soon know, so this isn't really an issue at all in the greater scheme of things.

To argue that some of it is real and some is not, before finding out, is divisive and splinters us into so many sub groups, rendering anything we do that much more ineffective. If we are a splintered group, and we are, THAT is what makes the difference in credibility to the outside world because WE are totally unable to do the one thing God wants us to do: Love one another! THAT is the neon sign blinking so brightly.

Imagine if Ron and Felix are correct and it's finally a reality coming? Imagine if Ron and Felix are mistaken and how much love they will need from us afterwards to heal from this mistake? I don't imagine God or Angels are ever behind ridicule, anger, and worries about "saving face" to the outside world at the expense of love for our brethren.

The truth is, ALL so-called "channeling" is thought of as ridiculous (mental illness) or evil (it's the devil lying to us), or simple fraud, to most of the outside world. In my own opinion, it is not really possible to convince most people that this sort of thing is real unless they themselves experience it. I don't believe Ron and Felix's posts can break anything because it's all already beyond mainstream religion, just like NDE, OBE, famous channelers, and the like. Trying to make people believe in this is futile.

So, then how to attract more followers? IMHO, it is as simple as living the lessons given about loving one another, and about teaching the way JESUS taught! It's about reaching out to break down walls between faiths, and not putting up walls within our own! It's a question about what you want the neon sign to be saying- what the outside world sees and WILL respond to: Love.

Love and peace, Michelle

Ginny wrote: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:47 PM

This world has to be fixed, no doubt about that. Can anyone imagine the complexity of this task? Can anyone come up with another scheme? It's not a simple task,. Multitudes of beings would have to be involved. Why not this one? I suspect that no matter whose scheme comes up, there will be naysayers. Our insight is so limited that any plan to bring this planet to Light and life will be suspect. We simply cannot comprehend the reasons behind all these plans. This one seems to be very well explained and I trust those whose wisdom and knowledge can bring us through......hopefully..........Ginny

Oliver Deux wrote: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:46 PM

Dear Ones:

Why should one consider if the words of another are correct, when we have been gifted with ready-to-go access to the Spirit of Truth, just for the wanting to make contact, just for sitting still and saying, 'Hey, Creator Brother, I want to know you... and this and that...'

What is beyond my paygrade is not for me to know now in this electro-chemical body. I have eternity to find out how everything works. Write now I am here to practice to love each on my path, and that is so much more important and difficult than producing and reading spi-fi.

I have already transmitted with one dear brother, before he was diagnosed with the complex mental disfunction of bipolar disorder, with distinct phases of hypomenia and debilitating depression. We never published his gigantically imaginative spi-fi, and it was superb reading, and contained amazing stories for genre screenwriters. His ability to create names and groups and orders and places was sheer unlimited

So, if it is beyond my paygrade, a guy who still introduces The Urantia Book as sci-fi to people who get off on imaginary people and worlds and universes, I first check with my truth center within.

But today, a little help came my way from our brother in Australia, and I am inclined to say, it brought me right on the track that I know I should be on. I know this because I listen to what my truth center acknowledges as truth for me. And it is entirely possible, and makes total sense, since each of us is at a different level of spiritual development, that the verified truth that we can recognize differs somewhat for each of us.

Here now, siblings, may I present Sharmon and George. I thank both of them!!! Oliver

Illawarra District, Australia, October 13, 2012. Midwayer Messenger Sharmon (MNO-6). Subject: “Revelation, Prophesy and Gross Error” (part transmit only).

Received by George Barnard.

George: “Might we ever progress to be sharp enough to detect your perfume, I wonder. I guess you have a message relating to what so many of us feel. Fire away, I invite you.”

Sharmon: “Likely you will perceive my contagious charm before my excellent perfume, my dear friend, for we are one at heart, and in mind and motivation, and all that is set to produce progress is a ‘never-to-forget news item’ to us both. This is your friend for all eternity, Sharmon, the sixth offspring of the MNO family, greeting all those present, and all who will receive these words from me and my clan. Let it not be said that we are either unaware of the goings on on Urantia, or fail to note your needs for occasional clarification.

“There has been a great deal of chatter about revelation in months gone past, leaving many with the thoughts that the local universe Creator has thrown up his arms in despair and greater minds must now resolve an impasse of Urantia going to wreck and ruin. However, a great future awaits both, the planet, and its time-space (evolutionary) deity, Gaia, whom we all serve. It is needless for you to consider that our esteemed Creator and Employer, Michael, and our Planetary Prince and Instructor, Machiventa, be at a loss to push forward.

“You humans, our tender-hearted little puppies, are hardly designed to be inundated with revelation of the kind – not any kind – that will throw you off of a psychological-intellectual cliff, as happened of late. We do not ever ‘bathe you in news’ of massive changes, calamities, and certainly not of new rules that are one-off, first-up digressions in universe routine. It hasn’t, doesn’t, and will not happen in the way portrayed by some, and there is no way in which the universe can here be forced to act in response to calculated, devious human design.

“You are human, hardly yet experts at living suitably balanced time-space lives in which you can adequately cope with terrestrial routine and its changes without becoming a menace to yourselves and myriad others. Your history is one of blatant examples of careless experimenting with anything that flouts the obvious will of the Father Creator. And besides, what allows you to conclude that you be allowed details of such far-reaching revelation, when Midwayers and Angels are left in the dark and must progress by faith alone?

“When it comes to revelation, you are allocated a mere ‘grain of reality’ at any time. When it comes to prophesy expect a morsel of truth to be contained therein, and when it comes to endless banter of a changing of the Celestial Guard, expect gross error. I am Sharmon, a humble midwayer messenger.”

George: “Your puppies thank you.” © The 11:11 Progress Group. Try coming out of the shadows, a little at the time—TA. Please visit: https://www.1111angels.net

Rob Davis wrote: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 4:53 PM

It is apparent the material messianic expectations Jesus wrestled with in his time are unchanged to this day. The apocalyptic imagination is a great source of inspiration in this world as I am sure it is in all worlds during their evolutionary struggle to attain "the vestibule of eternity" where such hopes are obsolete. Of course, it is necessary for a certain number of persons to enter such a state as individuals prior to any world entering it en masse. It is the curricula of Paradise that affords each of us a path to do so independently of any religion or social movement that may distract us from the simple task of doing the will of God, sharing our life with him in and through each moment of living. While the way of God is not always acceptable to material mortals, it is the way that governs the cosmos, including Urantia.

Rob Davis wrote: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 5:21 PM

p.s. The Urantia Movement is officially recognized as a UFO religion. No doubt, the Teaching Mission and Magisterial Mission would be reocognized as such if either of these had sufficient followings. Of course, this explains why Tom Choquette recently offered the Garden Project 40+ acres for 99 years for $1. with the contingency that they no longer talk about the Magisterial Mission in any public venue and do not openly proclaim that they are a Urantia based community. When I heard this, I thought it sounded like a "urantian" equivalent of modern banks e.g. post-modern slavery.

Gerdean wrote: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:30 PM

Reminds me of when somebody made Jesus an offer he couldn't refuse and he told them where to put it.

Gerdean wrote: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 7:01 PM

Wouldn't it be nice if we were older
Then we wouldn't have to wait so long
And wouldn't it be nice to live together
In the kind of world where we belong
You know its gonna make it that much better
When we can say goodnight and stay together
Wouldn't it be nice if we could wake up
In the morning when the day is new
And after having spent the day together
Hold each other close the whole night through
Happy times together we've been spending
I wish that every kiss was never ending
Wouldn't it be nice
Maybe if we think and wish and hope and pray it might come true
Baby then there wouldn't be a single thing we couldnt do
We could be married
And then wed be happy
Wouldn't it be nice
You know it seems the more we talk about it
It only makes it worse to live without it
But lets talk about it
Wouldn't it be nice
LaLaLa
From the Beach Boys

Rob wrote: Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 9:55 PM

Sounds like the personal equivalent of messianic expectations. Consider the following.

While we experience the vicissitudes of human love, the Master of love divine lives and moves amongst us weaving his way through our patterns of resistance as water among the rocks in a flowing stream whispering ever so quietly and with a gentleness often lost beneath the crashing sound of our mounting waves asking each of us, will you show my love, will you re-present me to your fellows and give yourself the unspeakable joy of feeling me living in and through you, each and all; and drop the weight of your material concerns to rise within and upon the fluid that I am and flow with me? Regardless, until then, I will wrap you in the cool refreshment of my love and gently stroke your injured feelings, these striking marks of time etched upon your hard shells I will smooth, and in time, if you allow, I will wear away the weight you hold fast, and then we will run as one. [1]

John Kimble wrote: Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 12:13 AM

Well said Michelle. Simply put, Ron has every right to express himself, just like Gerdean, Oliver, Daniel Raphael, and ALL the many other T/Rs out there. What they are able to bring through DIRECTLY depends on "OPENness" to receive.

I know a person who can clearly transmit Monjoronson, but a closed mind shuts him out as he/she absolutely believes he does not exist. He is a figment of our imagination. Go figure! Let's keep an open mind people. Lighten up! It WILL all come out in the wash sooner or later.

Until then enjoy the read. It IS quite fascinating to read and really stretches my imagination. I really enjoyed reading it. Oh the possibilities! Truly fascinating!

Just FLOW with it. Enjoy the ride. What an adventure all of this is. Praise God!!

So, let freedom of expression ring and discernment begin.

John Kimble wrote: Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 12:35 AM

Thanks Oliver. Sharmon clearly shows the other side of the fence upon which I sit. From where I sit, I have throughly enjoyed the show from both camps over these many years.

One of these days, the REAL truth or story will be revealed. Until then, discernment, discernment, and more discernment with a little sugar on top. Enjoy the show folks!

We will never have this wonderful experience again once we Graduate to Heaven.

STuTe

Sent from my iPad

Rob emailed Fred Harris: Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 2:48 PM:

Hello Fred-

I will gladly post your email to tml on your behalf. Given the defensive tone and the thread in which it will appear is being archived as part of the discussion page of a 'reflectivated' lesson entitled 2012-10-31-The Flurry 9, might you wish to re-write it in a manner that you would like to have on record for future reference?

Gratefully,

Rob

Rob wrote: Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 3:18 PM

Apparently the proposal offered to the Garden Project was not made by Tom Choquette but Fred Harris. More details will follow soon, but the email I received from one of the Garden Project participants at Alta Mons characterized the proposal as follows.

Fred presented a proposal to the group that the Garden Project consider collaborating with Truthseekers on the 275 acre property in Versailles, Kentucky, Tom Choquette has just acquired. They are looking for a residential community to help with their plans to do organic gardening with young people on the land. He proposed to lease the Garden Project 40+ acres for 99 years for $1. with the contingency that we no longer talk about the Magisterial Mission in any public venue and do not openly proclaim that we are a Urantia based community.
The group had an opportunity to sit in stillness with this proposition, and seemed open to further exploration of the option. Before leaving the gathering, however, Fred changed his mind about collaborating and said he and Tom were just going to do the project themselves. (I believe he was offended by some comments that were made).


Rob called Fred Harris on his cell phone at 3:29 PM to see if he might wish to adjust his statement knowing it was being saved. He hung up in the middle of our conversation.

Rob wrote on behalf of Fred Harris: Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 3:35 PM

Fred Harris has requested that the following comments be posted to tml knowing that they are appearing in a thread being saved as part of the discussion page of 2012-10-31-The Flurry 9. Apparently, the offense he took to the response at Alta Mons, he wishes to make known to tml.

Rob, Carol Hurtado forwarded me your post to TML regarding the proposal I made to the Garden Group last weekend in Virginia. Your description is totally inaccurate and I want you to post my response (below) to TML along with a retraction and apology. If he doesn’t, Carol, please post my response, as I am not on TML.
1. Tom Choquette wasn’t at the meeting and therefore obviously made no offer to the group. The discussion was initiated by me alone without Tom’s knowledge or consent. I suggested it when it became clear to me that the Garden Group did not have sufficient resources to acquire, design, and develop an intentional community of the type they desired.
2. I didn’t offer the sub-lease you described, but offered to propose such a sub-lease to the Truthseeker’s Board of Directors if the Garden Group was agreeable to terms that I believed the Truthseekers board would require. I made no promises as to their agreement nor any offer of a sub-lease, just a promise bring such a proposal to Truthseekers to see if there were common grounds and interest between the two groups.
3. Truthseekers is attempting to reach a broad range of young adults and is purposely not tied to the Urantia Book or any religious denomination because we want to convey love, service and forgiveness meanings and values to the young adults and any indication that we are pushing our agenda would be a deterrent to young truth seekers, in our opinion. We don’t tell our participants what our truth is, we encourage them to find their own truth.
4. The goal of the proposed Truthseekers organic farm in Kentucky is to attract young adults and to steep them in these (and other) meanings and values while providing an environment for growth and mentorship in learning an occupation working with the soil.
5. No group that wants to publically represent itself in any manner that would impede Truthseekers’ goal will be allowed to participate with our project.
6. I explained to the Garden Group that if they were interested in community that could support the Truthseekers’ mission, but without the public espousal of their beliefs in the UB or the Magisterial Mission or anything else that would be harmful to the Truthseekers’ goal, then I would propose their involvement to the Truthseekers Board of Directors, of which I am a member. I made it clear that they could privately believe whatever they wanted, but could not impose those beliefs on our young adults.
7. Before my proposal was even voted on by the Garden Group board, I withdrew it when no one at the gathering was willing to commit to actually moving to a community that the Garden Group proposed to establish – much less our project in Kentucky. The only interest that Truthseekers might have in extending such an offer is if it would assist us in establishing a community to support Truthseekers’ ministry. Without a commitment to assist us in growing a supportive community around our proposed organic farming operation, Truthseekers would have no reason to sublease any property to any group. And I specifically told the Garden Group that when I withdrew my offer to present such a possibility to the Truthseekers’ Board of Directors.
8. Your characterization of this dialogue and proposal as “post-modern slavery” is so lacking in substance as to be laughable to me, however I want the people to whom you circulated this to understand the circumstances surrounding the exchange so that they can make their own decisions. You weren’t there, so you have no basis, other than hearsay, on which to make such a judgment. Next time call me directly if you want to get both sides of the story before you disparage my intentions and mischaracterize my proposals. We have known each other a long time and you should know that I wouldn’t participate in “post-modern slavery” or any such unsavory activities.

Thank you.

Fred Harris

Carol Hurtado wrote: Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 5:20 PM

Rob, Carol Hurtado forwarded me your post to TML.....(ditto above)


Rob wrote: Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 7:40 PM

One can only wonder what is being defended here, but time will reveal it all.

Byron Belitsos wrote: Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 at 1:47 AM

Fred, Rob, and friends:

First, I am praying that you two, Fred and Rob, find a way around what sounds to me like a semantic misreading of each other (at least initially). Second, I found Fred's proposal at the end of the weekend's gathering very refreshing and actually very relieving after three days of impractical and imprudent considerations of a community design that is far beyond our means and intentions. Third, I would point out, Fred, that your restriction on "publicity" about UB/TM/MM affiliation seemed odd to me. I say this because you were proposing that Garden Project people actually live in very close proximity to the Truthseekers even while carrying out UB-related activities, education, worship, etc. Seems like this allowance would contravene your desire to allow the youths to seek for truth without specific adult influence. Is it really true that publicity is your only concern?

That said, I think there could be a reasonable "middle way" in this regard (which I realize may already be under consideration). Rather than being completely "mum" about it, why not actually present a wide range of "truth options" to these young people? That could include UB-related materials in a minor way, but only as just one among very many options in the history of religion and revelation. Ironically, that is specifically what Rob Davis provides at his site daynal.org in what he calls the "Primary Corpus" which covers revelatory/religious texts from pre-historic times to the present. Another but related tack might be to develop an explicitly interfaith approach in which everyone present on the land is encouraged to share specifically what their beliefs are in atmosphere of tolerance and inquiry and accompanied by a curriculum in world religions.

In fact I could envision a time when the Truthseeker's curriculum would include not only training in organic farming but also training in "organic truthseeking" in a very broad liberal arts/humanities curriculum. These young minds will want and will need more to do during their six months on the land than learn to farm sustainably and then spend evenings texting people back home on their iPhones. Aside from their work in agriculture, they may need or want training in other skills related to trutheeking such as writing, journalism, researching, debating, public speaking, conflict resolution, peacemaking, and interreligious dialogue. There are many of us interested and qualified to engage in such teaching and mentoring.

There might also be a curriculum in sustainability in the most general sense, inclusive of cosmology and the evolutionary sciences, and disciplines such as environmental sustainability and management, social sustainability (Monjoronson's agenda about which I am soon to publish a book), and such things as "eco-spirituality." I recognize that it would take a good long time to set up such a school, but the point remains that we as community are rich in knowledge in science and religion and I am sure we could quickly get something under way that is much more relevant to young people than narrow "Urantia book" education.

Finally, I will add my unsolicited 2 cents about the policy of not sharing mature adult religious beliefs with young adults: Since all those on the Truthseekers board of directors actually are prominent UB or even TM leaders, I wonder just how you are able to avoid broaching this information to curious young minds. I hadn't thought to ask before how that is carried out. Do you actually omit all mention of the UB to these young folks?

Warm regards,

Byron

Fred Harris wrote: Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 at 8:24 AM

Thanks, Byron, for your response. I have to admit that I was a bit hot under the collar when I read Rob’s post, as my response probably indicated. Having now cooled off a bit, I think that your comments are important and I would like to address them quickly.

Everything we do is influenced by what we believe and all of our experiences. We can’t really offer any program to youth that isn’t steeped in our own personal history. But what Truthseekers is attempting to do is create an environment where the participants will be encouraged to be open to truth, from whatever source. The best way to teach them is through our actions and not our words (“Preach unceasingly, use words only when necessary”). Actions are the most effective conveyors of ideas. Living the Word, so to speak.

That being said, I don’t think that an Urmia type experience would be bad for the kids, where we bring in people representing differing spiritual perspectives to talk to them. But much like the brothers that ran the Urmia camp, I would prefer that we keep our opinions to ourselves.

An advanced school is certainly a good goal (“organic truthseeking” is a great phrase), but first we need to offer an attractive first step and I think that is organic farming. But I could be wrong. In any event, a school or religion doesn’t seem to me to be much of a draw to most young adults.

Finally, we have attempted to keep UB references out of our discussions with the Truthseekers, not always successfully. Listen, this is a difficult pattern to design and implement and we are always open to ideas to make it better. Thanks for the suggestions. I will think about them as we go forward.

Such a life on such a planet!

Hold high the mission! It shall not fail!!

Lighten Life, Fred

Peter Hayman wrote: Friday, Nov 9, 2012 at 9:09 PM

Hi Fred,

Firstly, you play good guitar Second, you've got the spirit Third, when you stood up and made the offer to present the idea of dovetailing Truthseekers with the Garden Project to Tom and the others I thought it was manna from Heaven

In relation to the labels we chose to define our community: you clearly reminded us of the truth that it isn't so much about what Jesus said, as about how he lived his life

I dunno about you but I haven't heard any fat lady singing, so maybe the party ain't over yet...

"Give with your heart and love will come to you
Give with your heart and love will come to you" Laura Nyro

Blessings 10 x 10, Peter

Rob wrote: Friday, Nov 9, 2012 at 9:12 PM

Hello Fred-

I am glad to see this sharing in the cycles of growth!

The slavery I point to is the act of segregating one aspect of truth discovery from another. I trust any place devoted to truth 'seeking' would never discourage anyone, resident or visitor, from sharing 'their' truth. Otherwise, I am curious how you can encourage anyone in seeking truth without sharing your own? [1] Also, given you have raised children to adulthood, I am surprised that you think it is possible for anyone to "impose beliefs on young adults" [2] ;-)

Gratefully,

Rob

  • 1. "We don’t tell our participants what our truth is, we encourage them to find their own truth."
  • 2. "I made it clear that they could privately believe whatever they wanted, but could not impose those beliefs on our young adults."
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