Talk:2012-12-30-Aaron of Nazi Concentration Camps
- Discussion of Aaron of Nazi Concentration Camps
Advisory Board Input
Rob wrote: January 13, 2013 at 11:28pm
Dear friends,
You know I have always recorded and tagged for search purposes everything that has come to us regardless of questions about its authenticity or quality. This piece has given me pause. It is not the first time, but it is the first time I have appealed to you for your input on this matter. What really gives me pause is the association of the word "ultimate" as a descriptor for evil as this draws upon an erroneous notion of evil readily employed by commercial military interests for purposes of making war. Of course, we know they utilize all manner of mind tricks to do so. That it has been associated with a program of spiritual education seems to exhibit an interest in discrediting it.
What do you think I should do? How should I process this for the record of our human experience in this moment?
Gratefully,
Rob
Marty wrote: January 14, 2013 at 8:51am
Question: Who named this lesson? Was it the T/R or the transmitter? In either case, I find it acceptable for this message. It reminds me of Jesus’ admonition about the abuse of children.
This sure sounds like an important message, the subject of which is under discussion in our TM community… That is; the manner of divine assistance or intervention in human affairs. I vote for its inclusion. Marty
Mer wrote: January 14, 2013 at 10:49am
Hello Rob;
I see your dilemma. I don't have answers for you, but I do want to share that I found some redeeming value in this transmission and it's primary message that good overcomes evil even in apparently hopeless circumstances. I don't know whether that's a strong enough reason to include the piece given your understandable reservations. I guess it boils down to whether you want to include transmissions of partial value and limited truth - of course that might be said to be true of almost all transmissions. I pray and trust that Spirit will lead you in making the best choice in this matter and support whatever decision you make.
Blessings, Mer
Rob wrote: January 14, 2013 at 12:56pm
Hello Marty-
Good questions! I surmise that nomenclature, like all these documents, is a mixed bag of input from multiple sources. Nevertheless, I appreciate your encouragement for inclusion, and I will do so, but as I do with many pieces where legitimate questions are raised, I include the pertinent discussion in the talkpage of the article. Perhaps in some cases, I should flag the articles (transcripts) to point to the discussion for assistance in discernment process.
Gratefully,
Rob
Rob wrote: January 14, 2013 at 12:57pm
Hello Mer-
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I appreciate your encouragement, and I will include it, but as I do with many pieces where legitimate questions are raised, I include the pertinent discussion in the talkpage of the article. Perhaps in some cases, I should flag the articles (transcripts) to point to the discussion for assistance in discernment process.
Gratefully,
Rob
TML Discussion
January 14
Rob wrote tml: Monday, January 14, 2013 at 2:37pm
Dear Friends,
In view of a needed exercise in discernment, I thought to invite you to offer comments on this lesson attributed to an Aaron of the Nazi Concentration Camps on the subject of "Ultimate Evil".
Knowing that evil is "only the misadaptation of immaturity or the disruptive and distorting influence of ignorance" and "a measure of imperfection in universe interpretation", one might surmise that attributions of 'ultimacy' to immaturity and ignorance is itself a distortion emblematic of ignorance much like the philosophic underpinnings of "original sin" given sin a response to goodness, truth, and beauty, consciously negative to be sure, but nonetheless certainly nothing 'original'.
One of the most poignant lessons on evil afforded in the experience with literature attributed to divine sources that issue by any means through human agencies, is the encounter with the truth that "evil always results when purely personal evaluations are elevated to the levels of absolutes". Such encounters veritably litter the pathways of all such offerings, the Urantia movement, Teaching Mission, and Magisterial Mission being but recent examples. Of course, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and many others offer proof of the potent observation that "only with revealed religion did autocratic and intolerant theologic egotism appear."
With this in mind, I enclose the following lessons on "Ultimate Evil" inviting your comments that will be added to the discussion page, and you may note, that in all fairness, questionable lessons are held along with those received without question, but given recent conflicting opinions, I have added a feature to this lesson and the ABC Summaries pointing readers to the discussion page when questions of value arise from time to time. Let me know what you think.
Gratefully,
Rob
enc: Ultimate Evil
Marty wrote: Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 4:33 PM
Rob,
You quote a lesson about evil: "evil always results when purely personal evaluations are elevated to the levels of absolutes"
I wonder if this also applies to the Luciferian Manifesto? I ask this because I have read somewhere that Hitler’s holocaust was an attempt by Caligastia to rid the planet of the race from which Jesus came.
This does not seem to be a personal evaluation of Jews which was expressed in the hatred spread by Hitler, but the intended genocide of Jesus’ people.
It is a front line of the war in heaven manifest on Earth among other atrocities.
Marty
Rob wrote: Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 4:51 PM
Hello Marty-
Thank you for your thoughts! The reference to evil as always emerging from personal evaluations being elevated to the level of absolutes is from the Urantia text]. Yes, of course it applies to the Rebellion as Lucifer is perhaps the best illustration of this axiom. It is not surprising to see his legacy here as in other isolated worlds that would include Nazism, but it could be extended to any 'isms' that normally appear in earlier phases of planetary evolution. In worlds of isolation though, these propensities are greatly exacerbated to maximize competition and rationalized as a technique of accelerating evolution. Needless to say, the slow sure method of transformation beginning within has never sat well with those who would become crusaders evangelizing various 'revelations' including UB, TM, & MM. These reflect the legacy of Lucifer even while using the name of Michael resulting in a tragic form of irony.
Gratefully,
Rob
On Jan 14, 2013, at 10:58 AM, "Richard Voss" wrote:
Greetings Rob, if I read this right, Felix is T/Ring Aaron who was a Urantia mortal who spent time in the Nazi concentration camps and is using the phrase,”ultimate evil” to describe what was thought of Hitler and the concentration camps at the time. Is it because you feel the term Ultimate is better suited to describe an aspect of our creator?
Anyway, what raises my interest more is the phenomenon of Felix T/Ring all these historical figures from Urantia known and unknown. This seams to be a recent and most interesting development.
Presently, I’m down in LaVentana Mexico making peace with the wind gods.
Hope all is well, Rick
On Jan 14, 2013, at 9:38 AM, "Rob Davis" wrote:
Thanks Rick! I appreciate your thoughts and as you may have discovered, I decided to institute a new practice when lessons are questioned. Rather than struggle with whether to record what may appear to be problematic, I will simply make note of discussion in the pertinent talkpage and leave a notice on the page suggesting to the reader that examining the comments may assist in their discernment.
January 15
Jim wrote: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 8:25 AM
Hi,
I don't believe the statement. Personal evaluations leading to firm conclusions is not the creation of evil.
Hitler disliked the Jewish religion, their attitudes and culture, and was getting no political support from them.
It was his idea to get rid of them and take the considerable Jewish wealth for himself and the war chest -- a win/win.
It would be a waste of Caligastia's time to join into persecuting the Jews, since they didn't buy into Jesus anyway. If there were no Jews, there would be Christ Michael.
best wishes, jim
Marty wrote: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 12:53 PM
Jim,
Personal evaluations leading to firm conclusions is how we think and perceive our reality. But when purely personal evaluations are elevated to the levels of absolutes… There is where we go wrong.
We must be able to change our perspective when we get new input.
Marty
Jahck wrote: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:47 AM
Jim another possible angle to consider to follow enclosed.. Many pieces to these puzzles I know, but perhaps as we lay them all out some just might fit into the grand scheme of the Dark forces operating on the scene.
In Michael's correcting time many dark works have been exposed even as he did while he was here incarnate here. Those leaders although forgiven were likewise exposed for using the beastly eagle Roman power by the whore woman of alleged truth namely the religious authority in operation at that time to sacrifice him upon the cursed tree of life.Sacrifice is the preferred method of power. Jack
https://one-evil.org/content/acts_vatican_holocaust_part_2.html
Steffani Murray wrote:Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 2:07 PM
Actually it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since there were far more races blended into the DNA of the mortal Jesus, including the Andonites who were the parents of us all, as well as the Nodites who initially resulted from Caligastia's participation in the Lucifer rebellion. Besides the far more plausible motivations givenby Jim, I heard it on the history channel that Hitler didn't like a Jew who was his own family, an uncle on his father's side...or something like that. 122:1.1-3
Rob wrote: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 3:01 PM
Thank you for clarifying Marty! Unfortunately, the difference seems unrecognized.
JIm Cleveland wrote:Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 3:11 PM
Well, then, the best example of my point is my deliberations as to whether God exists. My conviction is firm.
And yet I am still reading other perceptions of that question, to test my conviction, I suppose. It stands up. It even gets stronger as perception grows.
I have other convictionss, so do you.
But, of course, people should readily change their perceptions and not be ashamed to do so. This is difficult for most, even embarrassing to them to admit that what they once preached hard was wrong.
I once voted for Goldwater and helped publish The Campus Conservative in junior college.
jim
Rob wrote: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 3:50 PM
Jim- Would you clarify your thought re: the statement "evil always results when purely personal evaluations are elevated to the levels of absolutes"? Then we might begin to discern your perceptions relative to the reality this statement represents. - Thanks - Rob
Jim wrote:Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 4:53 PM
My personal evaluation on the reality of God led to a firm conviction. That firm conviction is not evil. Neither are other firm convictions that one has. Absolute truth that they believe.
Yet, the vast majority of perceptions and evaluations are in constant need of revision as more wisdom is gained. There are few absolutes in evolution. And one's perceptions of just exactly who God is, and what he represents beyond the firm conviction that he exists at all, is also a matter of constant revision. I continue to understand God more as the years pass.
I once wondered why tragedies occur. It has required much study to learn that, and the Father's role in it. I once thought turning the other cheek was a sign of meekness, no more.
Faith seems to be a firm conviction itself. I have faith and a firm conviction in Father's time and space worlds and the ascension plan. Understanding it all is another matter, one of creature education layered with continually evolving perspectives .... if we do it right.
best wishes, jim bob (an evolving creature from the mississippi hills)
Rob wrote:Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 6:15 PM
I think everyone here would share to some extent your 'personal evaluations', but sharing personal evaluations is quite distinct from elevating them to a level of absolutes assuming you recognize the difference between personal and human evaluations that each human must make for themselves on a finite level as opposed to one made by a human who required such evaluations to be recognized as absolute by other human beings. The former is a source of freedom, the latter the seed of slavery.
Nevertheless, there appears to be some discomfort on your part to the reality represented by the statement that "evil always results when purely personal evaluations are elevated to the levels of absolutes"? It is possible you feel this negates the necessity of you or any making personal evaluations that for you are the basis upon which you focus a wholehearted dedication to doing the will of God? If so, it would seem that you may not appreciate the expression, "have you faith, then have it to yourself".
Marty wrote: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:53 PM
Have you seen this Steffani? https://one-evil.org/content/acts_vatican_holocaust_part_2.html
Steffani wrote: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:57 PM
Nope, but now I have, Marty...Apparently these conspiracy theorists hate the Catholics as much as Hitler did the Jews! 195:10. 8-9
Interestingly, we find... 98:3.5
Oddly enough, all that Mother Goddess stuff was just a distorted corruption several ancient religions based upon the legends about Eve!
The thing is...at some point you just have to accept the fact that this is a One Power universe...not that primitive and barbaric humans do. 54:0.2
Mostly willful evil-doers fail to understand that just because God lets them run amok and do whatever the hell they want to...at least until they get sick and tired of sinning and suffering and turn to Him...or perhaps cease to exist.
It doesn't mean the Paradise Trinity isn't always in control of universal REALITY.
Allowances for their aberrant behavior has been built into the Plan of experiencing creation, including mortals living as savages on natural planets! 105:6.4.3
The D'evil is a liar, their biggest lie is that God doesn't exist and that they are actually in power over anything...not even the psychotic humans who believe in all this having any basis in fact whatever.
Believing that it is possible to be separated from God or hidden from His Presence, never in any way is this really possible because it isn't His Will but theirs,, is the primal cause of such insanity. 118:10.18
Moloch's Nemesis,
(Anyone who is willing to let Father within free them with the Truth) 2:7.11
P.S. Personal religious truth needn't be thought of as any kind of absolute potentially imposable on anyone else in order to make Supreme Sense to any child of God who has let His Father explain everything in ways understandable to that individual at any level of existence one finds oneself on, at any given phase of development...but I do not doubt that genuine friendship with God will gradually make every person who embraces this eternal relationship ever more understanding...and increasingly sane! 66:8.6-9, 183:1.2
January 16
Jim Cleveland wrote: Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 7:16 AM
Hi Rob,
I don't expect others to buy the limited number of things I consider to be absolute truth. But I think it's important for humans to find such high values on their own during the mortal experience. We do find many things which are subjective, debatable, and questionable, but there are absolutes as well. God is good, for one. The facts outlined in the Urantia Book would appear to be absolutely true as well. If so, we can believe them absolutely.
Should we keep our faith in God a secret? Christians think you should share it and celebrate it and inspire others.
good wishes, jim
Marty Greenhut wrote: Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:56 PM
Steff,
Thanks for this detailed response.
You found hatred for Catholics in this paper but I could not find such as that. It looks to me like a history of the Jesuits and their part in the Luciferian rebellion against God.
I have read elsewhere, long ago of the Jesuits as rebels and their history certainly does point in that direction.
The fellow who wrote this paper writes that he was given the pentagram on the map in a dream.
We will be learning much new history as the correcting time proceeds. I regard these 8 papers as part of that process.
Thanks again for your thinking Steff.
Love,
Marty
Jahck wrote: Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:15 PM
Marty, I was raised in the catholic religion. there are many wonderful souls ascending therein. With that being said I have learned many facts relegated to conspiracy theories.in the world of Christian apologetics one can use any text to support preconceived ideas. However facts are very hard to refute. Take for example these facts:
- 1.The Nazis managed to kill more innocent people by fire in 1944 and 1945 than all the other years combined.
- 2.Adolf Hitler was raised by a Catholic father and a devout Catholic mother; he ceased to participate in the sacraments after childhood and supported the Deutsche Christen church which rejected the Hebrew origins of the Gospel.[1] In his book Mein Kampf and in public speeches he often made statements that affirmed a belief in Christianity.[2][3] Prior to World War II Hitler had promoted "positive Christianity", a movement which purged Christianity of its Jewish elements and instilled it with Nazi philosophy.[4] According to the controversial collection of transcripts edited by Martin Bormann, titled Hitler's Table Talk, as well as the testimony of some intimates, Hitler had privately negative views of Christianity. Others reported he was a committed believer.[5][6] source citedhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_beliefs
- 3.mid-19th century papal encyclicals like Rerum Novarum and Quadragesimo Anno, as well as Pius IX’s anti-modernist Syllabus of Errors, as examples of the Catholic Church being anti-communist decades before the October Revolution.
- 4.Twenty million people could have been murdered the same as many other dictators had done throughout in history, simply by mass murder and burial or the bodies disposed by creating great pits as was done during the plagues of Europe hundreds of years before which killed ten times more people.
- 5.Yet the evil charade, that the Holocaust was merely a hatefully racist, expedient, Nazi system of “cost saving” extermination, remains the accepted view---an absurdity that defies all the evidence to the contrary. That the main architects of this terrible period remain protected to this day is a mockery to the memory of every single Jew, every Russian Orthodox, every Greek Orthodox, every Protestant, every Baptist and every person sacrificed in the ovens.
The word “Holocaust” is from the Greek holo “whole” + kaustos “burnt.” It refers to an animal sacrifice in which the entire animal is burned. It is also known as the Shoah, which is Hebrew for “destruction.” The terms “Shoah” and “Final Solution” always refer to the Nazi extermination of the Jews and “the Holocaust” refers to the overall genocide caused by the Nazis, while the general term “holocaust” can refer to the mass killing of any group by any government.esource citedhttps://facts.randomhistory.com/holocaust-facts.html
- 6.The seeds from which the idea for the greatest human sacrifice of innocent lives originated is first to be found in the changing political fortunes of the Roman Catholic Church in Europe following World War I.
World War I marked a watershed for the Vatican. The destruction of the Austria-Hungary Empire thanks to the war finally freed the Popes---after nearly five hundred years---from treaties that permitted the royal houses descended from the Holy Roman Emperors to directly intervene in Papal elections. The destruction of Germany and French noble influence was “sweet revenge” in response to their pursuit of enlightened policies of secularism in the years leading to the “Great War”. For the first time in five centuries, the Catholic Church now found itself free to pursue its own course, without fearing the influence of the royal families---with one exception---Germany. Once the German royal family was destroyed- the church would be completely free.
- 7. now regarding this pentagram.
You can still easily plot this Pentagram for yourself today by simply calling up any map of Poland.
- 1. First, find Pulawy on a Map---the Palace and Temple to Cybele is located just to the South West of the town itself.
- 2. Now go directly up and stop just south-East of Ostrow---this is the top tip of the Pentagram and the site for Treblinka Human Sacrifice Camp.
- 3. Now continue to travel down South -East---past Pulawy until you find the town in Orthodox Ukraine called L'viv. Due west of this town was the Janowska Human Sacrifice Camp---frequently misrepresented as merely a labor camp.
- 4. Now travel west until you travel past Krakow until just above the town of Bielsko-Biala. This was the site of the massive Auschwitz Human Sacrifice Camp.
- 5. Now travel north until you find the town of Lodz. This was the site of the only human sacrifice camp dedicated purely to children- the Lodz Human Sacrifice Camp.
- 6. Finally, travel east again until you find the small town ot Wlodawa---almost on the border of the Ukraine---this was the site of the Sobibor Human Sacrifice Camp.
There is your Pentagram of Pure Evil. There is your Pentagram of death constructed to attempt to channel the greatest amount of negative energy to one location in the history of humanity. In addition, at least three other Human Sacrifice Camps were set up along the "ley lines" of the Pentagram, including Belzec, Tomaszow Mazowiecki and Majdanek.
The facts are too numerous to consider at this time however to start one may begin with the ruling class structure currently in power and move backward from there this is a good place to start https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJiCU6Jw0Co
Why would sacrifice be preferred by those who hate God? 4:5.4 The barbarous idea of appeasing an angry God, of propitiating an offended Lord, of winning the favor of Deity through sacrifices and penance and even by the shedding of blood, represents a religion wholly puerile and primitive, a philosophy unworthy of an enlightened age of science and truth. Such beliefs are utterly repulsive to the celestial beings and the divine rulers who serve and reign in the universes. It is an affront to God to believe, hold, or teach that innocent blood must be shed in order to win his favor or to divert the fictitious divine wrath.
What religious group promulgates sacrifice more then any other?
89:4.2 Early in the evolution of religion there existed two conceptions of the sacrifice: the idea of the gift sacrifice, which connoted the attitude of thanksgiving, and the debt sacrifice, which embraced the idea of redemption. Later there developed the notion of substitution.
89:4.3 Man still later conceived that his sacrifice of whatever nature might function as a message bearer to the gods; it might be as a sweet savor in the nostrils of deity. This brought incense and other aesthetic features of sacrificial rituals which developed into sacrificial feasting, in time becoming increasingly elaborate and ornate. https://one-evil.org/content/acts_vatican_holocaust.html
Steffani wrote:Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 3:06 PM
You probably know Marty, that I pretty much believe what the UB has to say about superstition, magic, rituals, ghost cults and evolutionary religions.
When I was a teen-ager (14) I felt flat out rebellious against God...Why? I believed He had cursed me because I was adopted as a baby by Jewish agnostic,s and my Catholic friends assured me that I was going to hell because of this... even though I had attended a summer run by Baptists and really enjoyed singing old timey hymns and worshipping in our little outdoor chapel every Sunday! I had started to feel drawn towards Jesus too...
Although my Cuban friend Gloria, who wanted to become a nuclear physicist when she grew up, gave me an out...She suggested that my real mom might be dead but praying for me from heaven that I find her faith tradition. So I sent off for mail order catechism classes from the archbishop of Baltimore, and began to learn and practice. Finally I felt ready and sought out a priest at the Catholic church near my school and asked to join the church. He found this odd that a youngster would come with such a request...and when he found out that I was the daughter of a Fruedian psychoanalyst, (Fruedians think ALL religion is PATHOLOGY!), he told me to go away and come back when I was a grown up...if I still wanted to 'convert'! Rejected at the local level, I quit sending back the lessons as I'd been faithfully doing...sure enough ominous threats I'd be going to hell started coming from that source! My life was already fairly hellish...and I began to reject the idea that God could be LOVE because here He had damned me without ever even giving me a chance to go to heaven and be with Him...an opportunity He provided for others...a soul crushing disappointment!
All these were human beliefs and ideas superimposed upon the truth about God...and still seeking, and spiritually inclined by nature, I soon found the ideas in the Eastern religions to interest me and give new hope, especially when I met my friend Brian in a creative writing class when I was 17...He was really into Lao Tzu, and his thinking presented an ongoing challenge to our brilliant teacher, Tom Sanders! I learned so much from both of them. And them my friend Michelle, the super groupie (that's another story) introduced me to 'Planet Man', Bill Swygard, who informed me he was "a son of God from another universe", and he was here teaching the 'Awareness Techniques', which were fascinating...then there was Brother Day, a CHRISTIAN missionary from India who looked more like the Hindu gurus, played an organ from the back of a truck at the 'love ins' at the Park, and taught Bible to the hippies. Lots and lots of intriguing experiences...
Until the day I finally asked 'the question' and Jesus' Spirit was right there in my mind, where he always is...although we have to "invite him in" to our consciousness to initiate a personal relationship where communcation can happen.
And true to his promise, he's never left...
Now I've said all that just to say this, if this was my own experience...Perhaps there are some folks who get turned off from God at some point in their life journey and don't make it back, but keep journeying on down that dark path?
Or maybe some human beings just aren't unhappy with the material/animal life...yet... 132:7.2
I don't believe anyone starts out evil, wicked, mean, nasty and godless from jumpstreet...not even Lucifer...53:2.5
Once I asked Spirit what happened there, and a part of it was that mud puppies like us received Adjusters and could ascend to Paradise, an opportunity which was unavailable to Lucifer, at least for a very long time...maybe never...and all he had and was promised in the future paled in comparison...the return of the Finaliters to assignments in the time/space universes in this age was one of his 'bones of contention'...Perhaps he was convinced they hadn't REALLY met or been embraced by the Trinity either, because that was an experience he couldn't have...54:4
but...high and brilliant as he was, his role was limited to the local universe...between the lines here is something in the lowest to highest range of experience longed for and denied. There was more, but it's waaay to far out to 'go there' now! 53:3.2.1
Or Caligastia...67:1.1-6
There's not a whole lot there to suggest 'night of the living dead', flesh-eating zombies, werewolves, vampires, witches, warlocks, efficacy of magic rituals to attract ancient bad gods or demons for the 'Ghostbusters' to vanquish...I would respectfully suggest most of that stuff is evoked by the creative imagination of our evolutionary minds as we do battle with real foes great and microscopic seeking to do us in...the grand saga of predators and prey being archetyped by US!
Today there isn't much that goes on in 'the world' that I'd blame upon some powerful, organized, secret conspiracy of evil...not that I deny there is a whole lot of evil-doing going on every day! (turn on FOX or CNN, they specialize in telling us bad news, some lies some true, mostly a perceptual mix;-) God knows all about everything! He opted to endow animal origin species with complex operations thinking and free will...and also entrusts a portion of His own Spirit into their keeping. He asks that they voluntarily decide to do things His way, according to His will rather than their own lower natural preferences. HE EVIDENTLY HAS MORE FAITH IN US than many of us have in Him...but this won't always be so...Urantia will eventually evolve into light and life, a planet where individual human beings choose Father's Will, to live the 'golden rule', and share one another's burdens as children of the Most High, brothers and sisters who ALL know and love God! (And it WILL take the adjunctive completely co-ordinated and comprehensive ongoing supervision of Jesus/Christ Michael, Machiventa Melchizedek, and one or many Avonal Son missions, and THEN visitations by Trinity Teacher Sons, with or without any 'suddenly' to finally get us THERE!) 145:2.4-8
Rob wrote: Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 3:20 PM
An "absolute fact" would not be contingent upon appearances necessary for mortal minds to function.
Beliefs may be shared, but faith is discretely personal.
Marty wrote: Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 8:32 PM
Dear Steffani,
You wrote, “I was the daughter of a Freudian psychoanalyst”.
But it probably wasn’t Dr. William Sadler who I’ve been told brought Freudian psychoanalysis to the USA.
Your letter below is greatly appreciated and I carefully read every word looking for the reasonas that you have for believing that there are no such conspiracies. You say “Today there isn't much that goes on in 'the world' that I'd blame upon some powerful, organized, secret conspiracy of evil”
You are entitled to your opinion which I am sure is hard won. I would simply comment that the evidence of the holocaust as a conspiracy of evil that went far beyond Hitler’s anti-Semitic hatred is incontrovertible to me as a person who knows some of the survivors of the death camps, as a thinking mortal of this world, and as a God knowing person considering the procedures and doings of the torture and killing of these people who were ordinary citizens of this world.
The pentagram is a symbol that has no power or meaning except that given to it by believers in it. Certainly the mortal followers of Lucifer and Satanic religionists represent a very powerful conspiracy.
I will not attempt to convince you that the holocaust was put together as described in the 8 papers at
https://one-evil.org/content/acts_vatican_holocaust_part_2.html
but only suggest that you would do well to regard the dark forces on this world that keep us at war and in debt, that fosters godless materialism, and which thrives on greed…. are real people who are evil in intent and in action, they are iniquitous and immoral, they are simply living in the Luciferian manifesto of self-seeking at all cost. They carry on Satanic rituals including human sacrifice, pedophilia, conspiratorial terrorism and on and on.
Thanks for your thoughts and beliefs, Steffani. We may both be wrong, we may both have truth, let the truth be known.
Love,
Marty
Rob wrote:Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 5:52 PM
As we ponder our current spate of national self assertion which follows closely upon the recent ascent of physical fitness in our culture to a state of high fashion sometimes parading with a panache of spirituality that popularizers of yoga have packaged, well tailored to American appetites for the visible and outward life, we might recall that in the late 19th century leaders of a new and seemingly robust version of Christianity abandoned the sentimentality and 'feminine' forms of Victorian religion for a new model that stressed action rather than reflection and aggression rather than gentility. Advocates of this more practical and 'muscular' Christianity promoted organized sports and outdoor activities building bodies to ostensibly evangelize and effect social reform.
Concurrent with this was the birth of eugenics as a tool of social reform which swept the best minds of leading countries in this world with enthusiasm over the prospects of a promised procession toward the progressive realization of an ideal society growing steadily upon our planet. This rising optimism coupled with a renewed vision of Christian spirituality led one highly trained philologist, writer, and acclaimed speaker to recognize in the Sermon on the Mount the simplest and greatest message ever given to mankind, especially Jesus' citation that 'blessed are they who suffer for the sake of justice, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven'.
He eventually wrote a book entitled Michael: A Novel which was so successful as to warrant seventeen editions from 1932 through 1945. In the book can be seen his idealistic view of Jesus' religion suffering under ecclesiastical domination and ossification, in desperate need of renewal and revitalization, liberated from the shop worn institutional shackles saying that "The various churches have failed. Completely. They are no longer in the front lines, they have long since retreated to the rear guard. From that position, their resentment terrorizes any formation of a new religious will. Millions of people are waiting for this new formation, and their yearnings remain unfulfilled." Such sentiments were expressed as an attempt to restore the living reality of religion and certainly not an attack upon it saying further that "today's youth is not against God only against his cowardly religious menials, who try to commercialize Him as they do everything else".
He was recognized as an eminently courageous and brilliant journalist, a successful orator who became eventually Minister of Propaganda for the German Third Reich under Adolf Hitler, and on May 1, 1945 was the only one of the original Nazi leaders to remain with Hitler in the besieged bunker in Berlin. His name was (Paul) Joseph Goebbels.
As we proceed into the uncertainty of this new dispensation confident in the hope of a new revelation, and perhaps find ourselves enthused with anything other than forgiveness as a tool of liberation, let us pause and remember the well trodden path of so many seemingly inspired intentions on Urantia which precede us as if to remind us always of the dangers of hubris which still echo from the legacy of Lucifer.
Peace,
Rob
Author: Tiahuan . Date: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 MessageID: 42406 Subject: a legacy to remember? Topic: General
Marty wrote:Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:33 PM
Dear Jack,
It truly means a great deal to me to have received the information that you have shared with us about the history of our world.
It feels like the light of truth is shining a beam for us to see through the storm.
Keep it coming.
In Father’s love,
Marty
Steffani wrote: Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 9:14 PM
Sadler wasn't a Fruedian...Karen Horney was amongst the principal transfer points.
When Jesus confirmed to his apostles: "And were you not warned that the natural human heart is deceitful above all things and oftentimes desperately wicked?"
Jesus affirmed that mortals are fully capable of unleashing all the horrors you mention upon others without being able to claim "the Devil made me/us do it"...The animal nature, "the old man of sin" is completely capable of perpetrating the most heinous atrocities unaided and on it's own...even as it was only wicked men who were responsible for crucifying Jesus!
A Son of God HAS come to Urantia...in our case the Creator Son of this universe...meaning, if one believes the UB, that the rebellion HAS ended here! 53:9.7
Every human who hasn't as yet unconditionally surrendered their whole will to God's Will remains the reason for 'the problem'...future generations can live in hell or heaven here...it's OUR choice, each individual makes that decision one on one with our Heavenly Father...there is no other way to remediate our situation no matter how we choose to see it or truly or falsely attribute the cause.
Jesus/Christ Michael and Our Father have provided the way...It's up to each of us when we decide to walk in it...and no one can make that choice for anyone else...One by one the lights come on and dispel any residual darkness. 186:5.8
January 17
Dylan Roberts wrote: Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 1:50 AM
Pondering truth the other day, this occurred to me:
Rational does not equate with truth. The truth is always rational, but what is rational may not always be the truth. Hence the inherent limitation of purely mind-based enquiry into reality. We need the support of revelation and spirit-contact to have a chance of converging upon the truth.
Gerdean wrote:Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 10:41 AM
Well said, Dylan.
Rob wrote: Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:30 AM
Contact with spirit is through mind that is the arena for discerning what is "revelation".
Rob wrote:Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:45 AM
Furthermore, 'support' from spirit/revelation is abundant. The use of mind is deficient.
Steffani wrote: Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:26 PM
Yes, this sounds "true"...and not only this, but the fact that our beliefs change over time as we receive more information, more or less validates what the UB says about our beliefs being at the most..."scaffolding"! 115:1.2
Dylan wrote: Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 5:45 PM
What I was trying to distinguish between, was a secular approach to truth versus a process of utilising the influences of spirit to the best of our ability. A mind willingly augmented by spirit is a much more powerful mind.
Rob wrote:Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 6:16 PM
Hello Dylan. I appreciate your efforts! The Agondonters' struggle with such heavy reliance upon textual forms of revelation is discerning that these, in and of themselves, are not revelation until they are experienced and subsequently interpreted in and by the mind. As such, when sharing convictions of truth, it is the personal discovery of but a facet of continual disclosure that is offered.
We have much to gain from dethroning assumptions upon any authority these discoveries may hold for others who must make their own interpretations. In this regard, the human interpretations of the Urantia Book, Teaching Mission, and Magisterial Mission are just that, a collection of individual interpretations of what are found to be revelatory in the experience of individual minds working in liaison with actual spirit presences.
Steffani wrote:Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 9:23 PM
1:6.6 The more completely man understands himself and appreciates the personality values of his fellows, the more he will crave to know the Original Personality, and the more earnestly such a God-knowing human will strive to become like the Original Personality. You can argue over opinions about God, but experience with him and in him exists above and beyond all human controversy and mere intellectual logic. The God-knowing man describes his spiritual experiences, not to convince unbelievers, but for the edification and mutual satisfaction of believers.
